Welcome everybody. This is the diversity in information security panel. I am going to be
shuffled off to the right a little bit. So we're going to clear the air before we turn it
over to the panel real quick about a lot of different things about this panel. There is
obviously a lot of strife to get something like this in. Should it be here, Does it need to be
here? Why is it here? There's not problem…There is a problem. All these wild things of why we
shouldn't do this and the simple answer that I have for all that is we should do it because we
should do it. Just get it out of the way and do it. I don't have to explain why we should do it.
You are all here because you get that we should have done it and your presence here says that's
the right decision that we do this. It's a lot of warnings and this is cheesy sounding and
everything, for a simple matter of appeasement we'll use the trigger words, yadda yadda
yadda. You're familiar with what this is, this panel may not be for you. This is for people that
are not really in that scene that already get it. This is for people that are just curious. I
don't see a problem. People keep saying there is a problem. Can people just be frank with me. In
here, there is no witch hunt. We have these microphones. You can ask something incredibly weird
and strange whether it's women in technology or minority. I know the audience maybe
cringing, we did a very small intimate 35 person group last year in this format that went so
well that people are like I know you're going to judge me for the rest of my life but I have to
ask this one thing. This is that safe place to ask that one thing. Maybe somebody in the
audience doesn't like this at all is going to be twittering and we should find out who he is
and attack him or her. But in this room right now we're not going to judge you for it. >> --
I have to go through -- (inaudible) I don't need a mic. Please, ask the questions. We're
happy to answer. He is being a dick, don't be a dick. That's all. >> If you're not on the mic
you're not on DT TV. Good. Less people for evidence. And all of you in you rooms playing along
from home, we're trying to be open and honest. We want you to have the same courtesy there.
Other things to bring up. This is a very, very widely diverse panel and we're going to start
with the not so obvious ones and move to the obvious ones. The obvious ones is we have people
here that work at fortune 500 companies and premier companies and wonderful and well respected
educational institutes. And a lot of them are well-known people having done a lot of
reverse engineering, a lot of research. These are the doers of your industry. And along with
the doers these are the up and coming people that are quickly becoming doers. It's very
diverse, just people getting into CS, computer science to people in it for a long time and
just crushing it. Well you're at the beginner side. Do you have imposter syndrome? >> Well I
work for the Gov and I am now a section chief, so I am not innovative or anything else >>
So that's the not so obvious thing just by looking, all of these people, you know, they're
very active in the info -- all are active at DEFCON and all have been here two years. Some
have been here since the very first one. You're getting a wide range of people that understand
the culture and understand DEFCON and the good, the bad, and the ugly that have come and
gone throughout the years. There are gay people on this panel. There are black people. There
are transgender people. There are minorities on this panel. There is -- we'll get to that.
He is handicapped. Handy capable. There are just very young people, there are much
older people. So you're covering everything. Ageism, sexism, you know, fear of transgender. All
that -- it's all here and they're all sacrificing their plight to take these questions
and talk about this stuff. So with this, one of the obvious things that people love to
Tweet, let me get this straight, you have an entitled white guy as your moderator of the
diversity panel? Yes. Well, I'm from California. As of this year I'm a minority in California.
But, that's just a small joke. You need to see me as the moderator, as the API. You're
all the people, you're supposed to be able to say, hey, I get it. I'm trying to translate
this. I know what it is to be a white guy and be a married to a minority. And have a daughter
that all she wants to do is play with Legos and stuff like that. I'm seeing it from a perspective
of other people, I'm white and I don't see the problem. I've seen quite a bit of it over the years
and I'm trying to be an API -- succinct and to the point about things. He doesn't cut corners.
When it comes to this he wrote a very great response on Bruce Schneiders blog about the
accusations of harassment alt DEFCON and how we handle those things. Making sure that DEFCON
is a safe place to be. He is the go-to guy. He is not a minority in the traditional sense but he
is here as a representative. So we can get that stuff out of the way. This doesn't look like what
I thought it was. This is what we're setting up for you just so you understand. >> I have been
on public transportation where you wouldn't believe the crap that you hear in those
languages. I do want to reiterate at the beginning here, we have a zero tolerance. It is
not allowed. Period. Full stop. You should feel safe and free to approach anyone with a red badge
or red shirt at any time. If you feel you do not get the appropriate level of response or
the response was inappropriate, find me. I am here from 8 in the morning until 3 or 4 in the
morning every day. It will not be tolerated. It's not allowed. One of my personal pet peeves, I
do a lot of standing outreach. There are not enough -- like I said -- woman and minorities in
the STEM. And it's so frustrating to walk into a classroom where, oh you're so
pretty, don't be smart, you're so pretty. And have that girl ask a question. I just light up.
Someone said she's smart. >> I swear I'm going to pass it over to you but one plug. This panel
was organized and put together by -- 2.0. They had a fundraiser party last nights. Part of the
national center for women and technology. We're the largest organization pushing for women
in information technology in the United States. We're the only information security group
representing there. So it's, we feel it's our responsibility as stewards of the information
community for you to give us feed back so we can get feed back to them. They're focused in
education and foreign 500. They have soft spots in information security and we feel it's our
job to hear from you, hear your responses even if we don't agree with them, pass them straight
through and say these are things that people bring up of concern. Keep that in mind afterwards.
Come find us and we'll be happy to facilitate that. Emily you wanted to add something? >> Yes.
NCWIT I spoke at their summit a year or two ago. NCWIT has a high school competition for
girls 9th grade through 12th. It's a scholarship opportunity and award. If the girls go to
the state level they have an award ceremony. They get a trophy and cash prizes and
scholarship for college. NCWIT.org. And look at their scholarship. >> Now we'll kick
it off. I want to start with mouse. We should do introductions. After that I
would like you to kick off the panel. Scott, we'll start with you. >> Your name, your industry
or where you work. >> My name is Scott. I'm a gay man who has been working in the industry for
almost 20 years now, information technology and IT. Working for a multinational company, foreign
500. Working for -- industry now. It's really interesting to see what we've had happen. >> My
name is little jinni and I'm half way through schooling for informatics. I'm going to
combine the big data initiatives and layer in information security to that. It's kind of
interesting to layer that in. I'm also Mexican and I'm also female. >> I'm sandy Clark known
as mouse. I'm an adult that is getting a Ph.D. I'm at university of Pennsylvania.
We'll talk more about the ecosystem later. >> I'm Jolly. I'm technically homeless
although people say that doesn't count. This is going to shock you but I have a turban. I know.
I know. I just thought it was a built in pillow. I left my magic carpet at home. Other fun things
I have a slight addiction of conferences and I mean in 2012, I went to 26. I've probably done
more this year and also dancing and CTF's. >> I'm Emily. Working as a college student trying to
build a company that focuses on educational technology. I'm working just to increase better,
more open source, educational resources. >> My name is Vyrus I'm probably the most defensive
person that is going to grab the microphone today. This is my 12th DEFCON. I'm part of a group
called DC949 we invented Open Capture the Flag a while ago, now it's been passed off to
another group who's doing a crazy job. I work at a security firm. I previously worked at
other places and break shit. Hackers are now a minority at DEFCON. >> I'm Kristin. I'm a
hacker first and foremost. I've been presenting at DEFCON for many years now. This is the
first time I've gotten up on stage since I underwent a gender transition about three years .
This is slightly bizarre for me. I hack all kinds of things. Internet companies to cell phone
companies to car companies. We try not to. So yeah, Hi. >> All right. I'm going to stand up
otherwise you can't see me. When we have a podium you can't see me over my computer. I'm going
to tell you how I got here. This is an origin story. I grew up in a conservative religion and had
a very well-defined gender role and my entire future was planned for me. And I went to my
church's university as a premed student. And I spent my entire childhood doctoring up every
child in the village. I imagined myself in a lab coat. I was going to do research and cure
cancer. And my first semester at this university, my adviser called me in and said you
shouldn't be in the premed program you're a girl. I dropped out and spent the next three or
five years trying to figure out what I was going to do. I took a computer science class buzz all
my friends were taking it. It took me 10 to 15 years to break the chains that were around my
brain. When you're firmware is slashed with something, you don't question it for a long
time until somebody glitches it. And then you might start to question. So when I broke free
and I took a couple years to believe that I wouldn't be punished for trying. I came to
my first DEFCON and it was DEFCON ten and I was scared shitless. I didn't know a soul.
I didn't know how to do anything. I was terrified. This was the community that I wanted
to be a part of. I walked in and you guys found me, I don't know how you -- but you did, but
suddenly I found a family I never knew I had. Things, this place, if you make it so, if you
get over the fear of -- because it's -- well it's a bit harder for you than it was for me
because it was much smaller then. You will find that this is the safest environment you will
ever be in to be who you really are. We are not easy people to be around. Because we won't do
things for you. We expect that you're going to try something and you are going to fail at it
a lot. And I'll get back to that in just a second. And we will help you but we won't do it for
you. Whatever you are, whatever is inside of you, we will accept that. Because the people who
don't, are not the people you want the respect of anyway. My advise to you as new bees is the
advice that the things that I've learned from these guys. The things that my adviser is
constantly telling me, I want you to fail well and I want you to fail often. And I want you to
get up and try again. I built a couple 3D printers and this last one I built kicked my ass. And I
spent an entire year taking it apart down to the screws and putting it back together again
because I couldn't get a decent print. And because of who I am I thought what the fuck is wrong
with me. Of course you blame yourself because everybody else is smart and they know how to do
it. Turns out that on one of the forms after an entire year, this was a full year, after --
someone said you know my nozzle was the wrong size. I printed something out and measured it
and it was too big. I measured it with calibers and my nodule was .7-millimeters and I thought
it was .5. One software change solved all the problems. What I mean by fail often is it's going
to happen because you don't know how to do shit. But you don't give up. You don't doubt
yourself and you don't stop trying. The answers will be there and these people, here,
have a lot of the information. Once you try and then you ask. And everybody will help you.
That's what this community is for. I'm going to pass the mic to someone else? >> Thank you
very much. We have about 25 minutes left. So thank you very much. And this is something we
specifically wanted to make sure mouse was out there. We talked about it at a in the pre-meeting
, we felt she had the best representation about how we think of DEFCON and the people
and the friends that we make here that continue on throughout this industry and hopefully
these are good stewards to bring people here or take this attitude to wherever they go? >>
Her story is not unique. All of us on this panel felt the same way. This is our new family. >>
I wanted to do something to shake up the room a bit. First put your hands in the air and
get the energy going. It's like a Ted talk. The next thing I want to do is if you do not have
a college degree, please put your hand up in the air if you do not have a college degree. If
you were qualified for the job and they told you that you were exactly who they were looking
for and you still didn't get the job because you didn't have a degree, keep your hand up.
Otherwise put your hand down. Ever. If you never had a degree and knew exactly what you're
doing and said you're 100 percent qualified and we really want you to have this job, too
bad you don't have a degree. Look at this room here, how did you feel about that? How did you
feel when they told you you're 100 percent qualified? There you go. For you people, how you felt
there, you had to think other people that -- it's easy for us to say it's never happened to me
or hasn't happened around me. I don't know if this is a real thing. That was a real
experience for you and how you felt then is how other people feel when it's, you know, you're
a girl, you're not supposed to be here. Or you don't fit what I think an American should look
like. We're not going to hire you. Or I'm homophobic and stuff like that. And it's still
prevalent everywhere. That is how they felt. I did everything right to be here and you said I
did everything right except for this degree. Imagine if you couldn't fix it by getting a
degree. They can't be not a minority, be not black. You know. I don't know how to
articulate that but I think you get what I'm saying here with that example. I want to open it
up to the panel at this point and say, do you have any good success stories where something
negative happened and you found a way to turn it around positively? >> I used to be in
administration. I didn't have a degree and I fell into that right after retail and
restaurant worked and I excelled at it. I worked my way up to executive administration level.
I hit a point in the career where I wasn't making enough and wasn't getting the respect
enough so I put my resume out there and got a call back. You're amazing and wonderful. I
know your previous job and who you worked for and the fact that you survived more than a month
at that place just blew my mind. They went through 26 administrative assistants within
one year before they hired me and I lasted three years there. That in itself, they're like we
need you in our office. I said okay, what can you offer me. So they gave me a figure. And very
typical what they always tell us is you're supposed to counter that. I countered that and said
I would like a little more. And she said I'm not going to do that. Why not? Because there are
people with degrees willing to do it for less. And that was a big just like choke back for me.
And I had to swallow that. I said let me think about that for a night. And thankfully I was in
a wonderful situation where I had a husband that sat with me that night and we sat up until 3
in the morning and went back and forth. I had to get out of the office I was at but those words
kept ringing my head. And we looked at our finances over and over and said go back to school.
What do you want to do? That was an interesting point where I said, listen, I love computers,
I like this but I don't want to commit to that. He said what do you like. I said I like society.
And I like working with people. I like the intricacy. I can get a career in anything. It's like
psychology but without a career map. I don't want to help people and fix emotions because you
can't do that. So he looked at me and it was like that lightbulb went off and I'll
never forget that moment in his face. He is like informatics where you use the sociology of
people and society and then you're using information to really combine that. It's a big
thing and it's like going places now. Everyone heard over and over, big data. And then as we
go more and more into this and now we're getting into the 1 or 2 o'clock hour and he's telling
me because he is in information security about these loopholes and issues. And I said why isn't
anyone layering this together? And we looked at each other and that lightbulb went off. I
started looking into local colleges and started building that degree and found a local
college that worked with information security and informatics. Had them both. So I
started a career path of my own. That is what I'm working in. That was about the time that he
brought me into DEFCON. And it blew my mind how incredibly open and welcoming everyone is.
Interesting anecdote is one of the first conferences that I went to and it wasn't DEFCON but
close to that. And I remember sitting outside and there was a smoking section and I ran into a
girl and she was like what do you do. I said I'm in office management. She said Microsoft?
I said, no, people. And she turned around and walked away. It was shocking. She was a girl,
too. That was more like -- if it was a guy I think I would have passed it off but it was a girl.
And until DEFCON where I ran into this same person again. And we got into that exact same
conversation. And she is like what do you do? I hesitated. I said I'm here as someone's
girlfriend. She was like no. No, you are not just someone's girlfriend and nothing stung me
more. This person I hated for an entire year and I resented her became one of the biggest
mentors of my life and that was here at Defcon. That was turning a very negative into a positive.
>> What do you guys want to say about the boilerplate? It will be very clear once you hear the
question. Twitter is just like this hyperbole of complete nonsense especially when it
comes to misandre and misogyny acusations. What do you think? So the loaded question is,
because you're very active on these conversations what do you think we can do better or is it
something we have to turn off? Or just start rambling after on your thoughts about the
situation in it's current form. >> I start by just hitting the fucking unfollow button when I
don't want watch what somebody else is saying. I don't know. My intro to the community was
different and more hostile than most. When I came to DEFCON there is a lot of talk now about
DEFCON being an openly inclusive place. When I came it was a ton of fucking thieves. Like an
electronic gun conference. It was a lot of people that liked tech and scared a lot of other
people and that gave them power. That scares people. Our history is we have our blinking boxes
out there and we want to be engineers. So we built our own parties and called it DEFCON.
And now those people want to come here, they want to look at our tricks and buy your bugs and
pretend like we did it to teach them. If you have a badge and you're here today and you don't
hack stuff and you're here to observe, that's great. But understand you're a fucking
tourist. We built this place to be safe for us. Not radically inclusive. Ours. And ours means
that the thing that matters most when you're here, not what you look like or smell like or have
two arms, but what you do. What is in your head. If I hand you a problem and I don't help you
solve it, what do you do with it? This is a bunch of people that have unique approaches to
that question. And nothing else matters. And you're so so contingent is just as much as
anybody else. I'm just as free to use racial slurs and you're free to use racial slurs. If I
want your bugs, I should probably be nice to you and if you want my bugs you should
probably be nice to me. But you don't have to do shit. I think it's important that we keep that
mantra. Because as soon as we become the PC police and back up for things other than our hack,
we don't have our hacks anymore. Thanks. We're going to start doing some Q and A so if you
want to line up here and have questions, this is your live mic to do that. While we wait for
the people to come up and ask questions, Kristen maybe you can speak about if you've seen any
changes, if any in the Black Hat, DEFCON, tour Con, those are the big cons here? >> The
biggest thing that I've seen change over the years is myself. A few years ago when I was
coming to DEFCON I was living a lie essentially. I knew I was female. I was identifying as
female and forced to live this male persona. And I was the one not letting me fit in at DEFCON.
I could come and present research and never felt a part of the it because it was me not
letting myself be a part of it. So I come back this year and these kind people are awesome
enough to invite me on the panel and I come and do stuff and it feels like a family reunion.
DEFCON is a giant hacker family reunion. I feel at home in this place. You have no idea. And
it's been an odd realization for me that, like the clothes and the hair and the lifestyle
changes that I've made, makes me feel safe in the real world. What makes me feel safe in
DEFCON is this. It's the fact that people here know I hack things and I solve problems and
I build technologies and that's the only thing that matters. This is -- it's such a welcoming
place if you let it. But you got to let it. >> Thank you. >> We'll take the first ... >>
People are going to hate but for something no matter who you. Why not be hated for who you are
rather than who you're not. >> Yeah. >> We'll take the first question. >> When I came to
DEFCON as opposed to black hat, these my people is where I feel happy. I myself have changed in
the last genders in the couple of years while working in the industry. One of the things I
notice is we're very tolerance of difference but at the same time we have these ingrained
prejudices. So in my case people don't care that I'm trans. I'm seen as a woman. I have to prove
myself. So I do and I smack them down. >> We see you as Australian. >> No, you're wrong.
It's okay. >> May I respond? So the thing is that this isn't just DEFCON. We get that kind of
thing, I have a very recent example with U.S. congress people where they would not
listen to a female voice. And everything had to be repeated by a male voice before they would
listen. This is not exclusive to DEFCON. This is a problem that right now the only solution I
can think of is to do some awesome hacking. Rub their fucking noses in it. At least
here for a lot of its history, about 30 percent of the speakers, the people presenting
the cool stuff have been female. While it may not meet your needs and there is still no line at
the women's bathroom which is my metric yeah. Some things here are better than they are in the
real world. >> Really quickly, we do a survey where we -- all the conferences and all of them
generally say between 6 percent and 12 percent women except for DEFCON. DEFCON is between 28 and
38 percent. The uptake of women in information security is about 16 percent, 16, 17 percent. So
we're double the actual industry as far as our speaker representation is concerned. Of
course, everybody can quickly look and say there is 51 percent of women on earth so shouldn't
there be equal representation. That is true but it's a path we'd like to get to. But just to
point out we're more than pacing at DEFCON. If you know our CTF process you know it naturally
bubbles up that way. >> I don't want 51 percent in here. I don't care if your transgender, a
woman, a man. I'm looking for a good piece of mind. If you have asexual, trisexual, or a neuter,
I don't care. It's not important to me. If you are a brilliant mind, that's what I want to see
here. I don't want to see 14 percent Vietnamese and 30 percent Caucasian and 15 percent
women. I want smart people here. And get over yourselves. Get over yourself. The only way I
can be more handsome is if I shave my rear end and walk on my ends. Everywhere I go with my
shaved head it's a hate crime. Because I'm the big ugly white guy. Who cares. Don't be a dick.
Don't put hand on people you can't put hands on. And Going back to your original point, as
virus said the original community was a small tight knit community, i've been here since
DEFCON 5, so 17 years I watched the kids who came to five are now here just starting with
their grandkids, our demographic has expanded from that. They do a much more diverse homogenized,
corporatized, marketized community. We're seeing that bleed over into this. Just
listening to the crap about New Zealand. The scariest thing I ever saw was when we played the
University of Hawaii and they did the Haka, I swear I thought they were going to eat us. It
was cool. It was great. Cause I can do that, I'm comfortable with that. Who cares. Let it go.
I'm not an ugly white guy who is an asshole. I'm me. Don't carry it with you? >> One of the
things that I took away with my experience at NCWIT -- is there's this thing called
unconscious bias. You're not aware of what you're doing. Because there's so many white
men in the information security, people, everybody, doesn't matter what race or culture you
are or sex, you start to be build expectation of who fits that model. So I'm 100 percent
not for affirmative action. I don't think there needs to be percentages or quotas. But as
individuals you need to break that mold and not expect the white man to be the hacker. It's
an interesting, people aren't aware. So if you're thinking, oh yeah, that is not an issue. No.
You are that issue. You have to stop -- I've been guilty of that. It's interesting. I think
it's -- whether it's your sex or your skin but we are guilty, I think by fixing those numbers
just a little bit. It's not about 50/50 or meeting a quota but understanding there is no
quota? >> It's about opportunities. The opportunities for someone who is interested
regardless of age or whatever. Whatever characteristic they feel comfortable. You've seen
the always commercial recently. If you haven't seen it, it's very interesting example of
unconscious bias. Because they asked a bunch of small girls, like under 7, what it means to
run like a girl. What it means to throw like a girl. And so the girls race across the room and
throw the ball as far as they can. And then they ask the adults what does it mean to run
and throw like a girl and then you get the classic stereo types. And then they showed the
adults what the kids said. And the adults realized they had a bias. Sometime between 7 and
wherever they were they transitioned from a girl can do anything to a girl has to do it
like this. I don't think it's just related to females. >> Question to females in the
audience. First, this is your first DEFCON speaking as a female. does that mean you're
going to take a shot? >> That means someone has to go get that. >> Doesn't sound like I
can say no to that. What's your next question? >> Well, that depends. Technically I'm three.
My question for all of them, I've interviews females on occasion, talked to them on
occasion and asked them questions about women in the workplace and how I can
contribute and make it more comfortable. But I get responses as far as when I ask them, they
prefer working with men. The typical girls are crazy, I don't like working with them. How am I
supposed to help if they don't even want to work with each other? >> That is a very good
question. We have the same Bias. >> If you'll notice, men, boys, are cultured from an early age
to work in teams, we work in teams. We play football and baseball and basketball. I'm not
a psychiatrist. Girls, girls play individual sports. They swim, they play tennis, they're
thought from a very early - hear me out. They're taught to compete with their peers. If you
think about that as a general rule, they'll play in the dirt. >> So there has been interesting
research on educators where they asked little girl -- they ask teachers if they treat their
girl pupils different than their boy pupils. And this is not just U.S., this is also been done in
Europe. And the standard answer from the teachers is no, we treat all the kids the same
until they are videos. And then they show, when they ask a little girl a question and she
gets it wrong, they have nice and kind and say that's the wrong answer. But when they ask
the boy a question and gets it wrong, they then work with him to get the next answer. So if
you think about it like this. They coax the answer out. Girls learn young, you get one chance
and if you fail you don't get another chance. Girls try to make things perfect. I went to a
conference recently that was specifically for minorities in security, an academic conference
and it was 99 percent female. The idea was to get a group of young security researchers to --
in a conference where they can see people doing interesting work. Not talk about gender
insecurity but talk about research being done regardless of gender. They made every one
of us talk for 2 minutes about our research specialty. And every woman spoke passionately,
intelligently about whatever they were doing. And I thought it was so cool. And then they
sat in the audience for the next three days and said nothing. Five of us had this interactive
conversation. And we were eating communal meals and I was going from table to table and talked
to people, you are doing such and such, this person speaking is doing such and such, why
didn't you talk to them? I was afraid to make a mistake. I was afraid to say something. It's
from the cradle because the consequences of failure are so much harsher that is one thing
that male mentors can do is give the females, your females proteges a safety net. If they
make a mistake you don't fire them. If they make a mistake it's okay? >> I have a very
quick answer directly to your question. If someone says I don't like working with women
because they're crazy, whether it's a man saying it or a woman saying it, they're being a dick.
>> Further to that, I noticed in the workplace a lot of people are often being dicks. And
sometimes the people are present and sometimes they're not. What responses would you like to see
when people are being dicks. When these comments are made? And if -- >> You don't say that
at a job interview though. >> Personally I don't always have the courage to speak up when I
see people being a dick. Can you offer any advise to people in the room about how to step
forward or do you think that should be something we're doing when we see these comments being
made? My immediate thought is I have to think hard about that person that you're interviewing
with. If they're asking questions that are dick in nature, do you want to work for
them? >> Those questions are illegal. They are not allowed to ask questions about your
marriage or your sexual life or your personal life. What is on your resume, that's what they
have to go on? >> This wasn't about interviews. It was about workplace interactions. >> In
the regular workplace Ive found it very important to really sell what you're doing and show off
your skills. Regardless of whether you're black, white, whatever. What you do is why
you're there and you do it well. >> And one school of thought, it can be tough for a lot of
individuals to follow along. If you know -- and I said nothing and then it goes on and on. That
is a powerful quote because you as an individual, you're like hey, I don't know if I'm
comfortable saying or not saying. And by not saying it, it's sometimes worse. That means
I may have to look inside myself and do something I'm not comfortable with to speak up.
But not speaking up can have some dire results as well. I'm not demanding that you do that
but it's food for thought that if we don't speak up, we don't speak up? >> What if we do
experiments. If we do, what are the results. Try it and see what happens. >> We're going to take
the next question because we're short on time. >> Quick. You don't have to have a big
explanation. Just say, don't be a dick and then move on. You don't have to say anything other
than that. It's just being a friend and reminding them. >> Next question. >> In general my
life, as a queer person is kind of weird, and whatever you know I would have expected given what
I've been taught. To have had bad experiences in general. But no one here has given me a bad
experience. No one has discriminated against me. And I feel like I don't slash our/
slash men's rights threats. But how do I like, how do I say, like, actually I've had positive
experiences. I know other people haven't and I respect that. But there is a lot of people out
there who have treated me very well. And that's awesome, and I want to give positive
reinforcement to the people who've been doing that while simultaneously telling people,
no, there is no sexism in the world. I don't get it. I've been very privileged. >> I only had
one negative comment the entire time I've been involved. >> My girlfriend is watching on TV
right now. Hopefully I'm not flirting with you too much, or just enough. >> Anyway, I wanted
to say that as generations like ours, we are coming into the work force, I experience less
bias as days go by. And in generations like mine I'm used to seeing people who are gay and
transgender and hanging out with other people. This is my normal. When I went to school, I went to
Purdue and they have the second highest international rate. And I think that we as our younger
generations -- will be able to deal with more diversity and teach those who are older to
deal with it as well and experience it and work with it. >> Jolly do you want to expand?
>> I often struggle with the same question. I had that progress and change over my
life. I remember me growing up, junior high, elementary, where I obviously stood out. I was the
different kid and I got teased a lot for it. If I look at my precollege identify, it wasn't
fun. If I look at me today and look at my life, I think my diversity, and my life is
fucking awesome but -- >> And you're Jolly. >> But exactly this' it. I think now I get
massive benefits for being diverse because I'm the dude in the turban named Jolly dancing
at a party and everyone remembers me. I get on so many work calls and introduce myself
and say I'm Jolly and they know who I am and I have no idea who they are. >> Do you think that
is privilege, I feel like that the people I work with, I have a benefit because I have really
nice tits and they enjoy looking at them. That is some privilege in the community. I feel like I
should check my privilege. >> I have a lot of friends that are -- that're white guys are
glasses. >> I'm not saying I won't. I will honor my privilege. >> I honestly don't,
it's challenging because I don't often know how to react because I have substantial benefits for
who I am versus my white male friends wearing glasses and black T-shirts. Try finding them
at a crowd at DEFCON. >> Quickly, I think we need more of those stories. It's not like ha
ha, shame on you. I have the upper edge. We need more positive stories. No shame. No
double edged sword. We need more of this. I hear so many negative stories and I'm done with it.
That is exactly why I pursued this panel. >> We're going to move onto the next question and
then wrap up with closing statements. >> I mentioned to priest earlier in response to
the girls are competitively and boys play football. I played defensive tackle. I was the only
woman in my league. I spent my entire life invading male spaces being told I don't belong
there. And I'm like, fuck you, I'm still here. How do we counter having to have that
attitude because there are a lot of brilliant minds out there who don't necessarily have that
attitude, who don't have that strength and there are also a lot of organizations who are
claiming to advocate for these folks and doing so in a really underhanded and back stabbing
way. So how do we make the space open to those people who don't necessarily have that same
temperament without throwing them to the wolves of these various organizations claiming
to advocate for them, and will not? I think the answer is mentorship. Be a mentor and
reach out to that new person in the scene. Don't be afraid, yea, it's only my second year of CON
but I'll be happy to show you around. That is where you get that change. You're no longer
the only girl on the team. Now there are two of you. You proved your point? >> Anyone here know
this symbol? Do you know where it comes from? There's priest (inaudible) they can take -- one
by one ... But they can't take us all together. It's stand together. >> We're wrapping up
and everything. We're going to make quick closing statements. Thank you to the panel for
taking the time. We initially talked about going in a different direction and these
things have a way of being animals and going wherever they want to go. I hope everybody on
stage had the opportunity to say their piece and I hope they were able to get through. And so, I
thank you, everybody. And you guys see their faces here. One thing I wanted you to take away
before you leave, these are obviously people you can approach off this panel. Come
talk to them. They want to talk to you. It's a positive experience and we want to keep
it a positive experience moving forward. Finally, numbers, people coming in, blew us away.
Not official DEFCON but looking at the demographics. This year is the first year there are
notable chunks in the pie chart. This is a big year for you to actually seek out people that
you have something in common with. So why not talk to somebody, you're like hey I've
never talked to that person before, let's go and say hi. It's hard for people to approach
random strangers but this should be a good place to do that? >> DEFCON is that one environment
where you can. Grab me in the hall. I don't care. I will stop and talk to you for a half hour
before I realize I was supposed to meet somebody somewhere. >> Okay. Well thank you all very
much and I appreciate all your time. And we're -- a lot of us are hanging out in the contest
area so if you want to go over there, that is where we generally are. >> I would like
to make one statement. With current industry trends, by 2016 you're only going to have
one-half of the industry jobs filled. If we don't start increasing the diversity rates
we're going to fall. We need to increase diversity. Encourage people to come to DEFCON. Find
the people who are broken. Find the people who are put down and help them become what we are.
DEFCON is one of -- I haven't felt at home like this since I was at Jcon. It's fantastic? >>
If you want to talk to me about not drinking in a world full of alcohol, come and talk to me. >>
And also, also if anyone wants to meet me for dinner I'm going to the American bar grill thingy
and I'll be standing there. Just join me and we can talk on stats on diversity rates and can
answer any questions that were not answered today. >> Perfect. Thank you very much, everybody.
"This text is being provided in a rough draft format. Communication Access Realtime
Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and
may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings."