Any
with social engineering, it seems
get together with Apollo,
at getting close to people
and we know psychological
and security perspective getting close
uncomfortable
So Apollo was part
Yeah.
It was never released
He's got a clip and as soon
going to open up this session
of that video so you get a sense
and then we're going to do some Q
of the talk is the "60 minutes
52 minutes.
APOLLO: That's natural!
Everyone get
around and watch this screen
and watch APOLLO: I wanted
with you a little closer.
Suckers!
APOLLO: This is a test,
on half of my body is cut off so
for them to see,
raise your hand so I know who you are
Two, three?
I don't care about you guys,
The nature of a" con "most
with when you hear
for confidence and the idea
of your mark?
How do you get them
about what they're doing?
The difference between belief
you can believe something I think it
but if you can get somebody
they will doubt their assumptions,
they will move forward.
That's how to get them concrete,
And the social engineering is trying
into a science versus something that's
I don't know in I can add anything
(Chuckles.) I always hate when I ask
because then I get one hand
How many people here listen
Good, more than one,
on the show, right?
We're trying
the principal
to do what they do.
It's not a magic trick it's understanding
the things that Apollo does
If we can understand that we can
since we are supposed to be
This is a valuable lesson
of us that do this for a living
If you don't you have
the last 18 month, guys,
APOLLO: I think it's set
I'm going to say three.
APOLLO: Is there anybody here who
for me that might be familiar
past on the background when I do,
or run cons,
give time for those guys.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hay,
psychological space
or is it a matter
suspicion elsewhere?
You're right
and that don't know you.
APOLLO: That changes based
When I perform and I'm doing
videos of me I use a bit of magic
to get inside that space
with someone there are different zones,
a book called" Different Dimension
for a second?
You saw the flinch here!
Straight
to face.
As I walk close to him you have
your personal space and then
The difference between the intimate
you can almost see, here,
straightening right
to shifting his center of body weight
if you think of it like paying a toll,
to get inside that space.
The way I do that is making
to the environment.
So a lot of times when I'm performing
through my performing persona
but on the street they have to come
assisting you with asking you
for the time
The space he has is shaped like an egg.
Not just yourself personally,
is (Laughter.) Wasn't a personal dig,
It comes out like an oval here
on the sides and in the back.
To get into that that means I can get
comfortable to him.
Go ahead and face straight up to me.
As I walk
more comfortable
and stepping into the space
into the space it's more tense for him,
was seeing.
But same thing, if I don't want him
I can pull his attention
in that zone.
Imagine one
is if you wanted
and how do I get close to his badge?
What would be an excuse to come
to an RFID reader?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: To have
APOLLO: But
if you have a closer look and
they would call that" kissing
of time with him and
look at my badge in the coffee shop.
So context,
at the badge and you may say" that's
under the radar and have him not
else, if I'm serving appetizers
a tray, I ask him if he wants something,
or underneath a stack of books.
Sorry, could you hold this for me,
on to he's holding it in front
much but I don't ask permission I might
I apologize for why I was doing it,
inside the space.
Obviously depends on kind
of context mixed with plausibility.
That projector shot the dust?
Did we do a call of" death tone "on
Did you want
APOLLO: We can do questions
Round of applause?
(Applause.) Out
a few of you can't see this screen at all,
You can't see this screen?
You can see it?
Just for the first few rows that can't
if you want to move over and
can stay.
There are seats and we can start
come o Christina, Michael,
APOLLO: I would love
to show you on this
about it I'm worried that some
of what we're saying.
Other questions?
Right here?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: We would
and what you're doing,
APOLLO: No?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: What
or can we find online?
APOLLO: The only thing that's
at TEG Global coming
As far as materials I can point you
That book I mentioned"
a great resource.
A lot of the work I do
false assumptions,
If you were interested
on critical thinking that jumps
is a great book called" Thinking: Fast
about on you hour minds work,
of us would probably pride ourselves
wouldn't you say?
We don't get affect we try
instead of stepping
Here he talks
and we react faster
respond to something
and the fault with that
set you are subject to biases
might not be aware of which is great
Because if I can identify what you have
along the line you have established
they are my building block
Any other questions?
Keep your hand up.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello.
APOLLO: Hi!
AUDIENCE MEMBER: So humor can
to people while keeping them
APOLLO: Yeah, humor
I used to use that for drawing crowds
because I wasn't applause,
people wonder, would I laugh at that?
So it's something that you think
so if you can artificially laugh
inside of a situation it's engaging.
A friend of mine used to run
he would use this for selling guns
and his main ability was making people
like my friends here.
And when people could come
he answers, he's in his robe,
out on the bed and he would say,
now you guys are early but he let us
the guns are or the drugs to come
in the door he has a conversation,
We'll count it later, stick it in the drawer.
He chats with them for a bit, says,
about I'll get the stuff and bring it in,
They say yes, he steps out of the room,
with the money and his stuff,
the stuff from another room
he never comes back.
At some point
finally they decide, you know,
they open the drawer, it's empty.
What my friend did was he was
in the wall and pulled everything
and taken it out.
He said the ability of that guy
made them feel at he's and feeling
is here but it's empty, when they look
and under his robe were his clothes
of the cons they used to run.
Any other questions?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Away
AUDIENCE MEMBER: This might be
but what do you think
the Mentalist "and the character
APOLLO: It's a cool area of study,
If any of you seen
see me?
"Is that what it's called?
The illusionist, slight of hand artist,
It's a different category,
and there is an interesting thing,
you guys were great!
(Applause.) APOLLO: Thank you
Mentalist and psychic are
but it's a skill I have learned and
the perception that they're doing that.
In that character the mentalist there
hot reading and tools that he's using
real and that's personal to my life
Ready to begin?
We are ready to begin,
after but let's get started
APOLLO: So just a set up on this
out of Montreal and it's 10 minutes long
and a little bit of stealing
on to try to make it
in 10 minutes so make your
to go and see how well it works.
It's waiting for the DVD to load
that's not you guys.
It's one of those things that happens
and APOLLO: Okay we need
over to the other screen for you.
That's a fun game and play.
(Sirens) (Music Playing.) That's
The automatic zoom, unfortunately,
What do you mean all gone?
Gone, gone, bye bye,
everything must go.
(Laughing).
What does it say here?
Saturday, February 19.
Exactly that's today.
Today, yeah, today.
It's 9:02 a.m.
the sale started two minutes ago
Yeah,
Where?
There.
(Noise) Wild star.
At only $4,000 people didn't wait
will tell you secret.
You, sir,
The SCX!
(Music Playing.) This baby does it
the same zoom
want, huh?
Come on feel how heavy it is.
Oh man, I hate you.
I know!
You can't do this to me.
After all I've done for you,
Can I help you?
Yes, my son is a thief.
He stole my friend's credit card
and bought a $5,000 camera,
Ouch!
How could you sell a kid
That's impossible,
So what did you want me
to give me back my money
What do you mean" final "?
What you've done is illegal!
Lady Illegal!
If you're so unhappy I can call
for ya.
Do you see
I'm so sorry!
Come on let me help you out!
You good?
Yeah.
Do you see what happened?
Enough, lady with the screaming.
You have no right to hit your child
No wonder he's stealing
Did you want to fight, is that it?
Did you want to fight?
Honey?
All right, lady, slap me!
Ladies!
Calm down!
Using their child
Listen, there
your money.
The best I can do is exchange it
but come hell or high water you're
to give that man back his $5,000!
Great!
Good choice, sir, $5,999.99
Thank you.
David Brown, same name
Really?
I want that one.
The AG Beta?
No, that's way more expensive.
I'll get you a bag.
Here is your new camera,
Look, it's completely new
Yeah, yeah.
One more thing.
Please come again!
Now I want you to apologize
all that trouble!
Sorry for the confusion.
It's okay.
I'll buzz you out.
Apologize for real!
I'm sorry!
This is the last time I'm going
I'm sorry.
(Buzzing door) I'm sorry.
Just give me the bag.
I'm sorry!
Okay, that's enough!
Here we go again!
Okay, lady, if that's
I'll handle it.
Don't worry kid I'll get you
I'm calling the police.
My phone!
What?
The door!
Stop!
(Buzzing door) It's him,
Hold on a minute.
What's your phone number.
555.
66 66.
65.
(Phone ringing) You see?
It wasn't him.
What the heck is going on?
I don't know,
That's my credit card my wallet.
My wallet too, it's the boy!
(Laughing) (Cars chasing) Saturday,
Exactly, that's today.
Today, yeah.
It's 9:02 a.m.
and the sale started 2 minutes ago
You notice what's written here.
You see
(Noise) I'm so sorry!
I'm okay.
(Noises) You wanna fight?
Huh?
Go ahead.
Slap me!
My credit card That's a real steal!
David Brown.
Let me get you a bag.
Say sorry!
Sorry.
(Music Playing.) (Sirens) Yes, hello!
My son (Applause.) APOLLO:
of our time and we only have
but I wanted to give you
all these cons all used together.
I thought I would give you
if you have questions
AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Away
want to come over this way.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Maybe what
is a Grifter?
APOLLO: Generally
beyond con artist, cat burglars,
of technique and wit is Grift.
We had an interview
he was conned once and
he realized that con men work
they trust you not that you trust them,
How is it that you make other people
a way that they're not looking
in the video?
APOLLO: I think there
"associated with trust.
I think like is a cherry on top.
If you like me, that's great
What I want you to do
I want you me to be transparent to you.
So
my objectives, what I want,
up, the more likely you are
in the sense of what you're doing,
If you think about an example
you might not trust them
just
because you know their mistakes
if they're a friend you won't trust them
On the other hand
like but he's capable, you're going
So it's the ability for had he to give
of transparency that I'm
the job done so as part
of those levels is for me to put you
referring to.
The combatives who I worked
with special forces and
they use" feeder/receiver, so
of the fight and the receiver of the fight,
in is to appear you are
the feeder.
That's an advanced technique.
If I can be steering
you're the one that's
help, that's even better
the suspicion level way below radar.
That's valuable.
So I think for us, because we're
like to do this as a hobby or
APOLLO: Yeah.
In our classes we teach similar
when you were talking
and making people feel comfortable
what's the next skill I need in order
from you without you feeling it?
It's more than just trust at that point.
APOLLO: It is, it's
I'll show you a couple of visuals
This is the complex way that I think
Let me bring this up.
Let me know if it comes
You have all your senses coming
But in my mind rather than that being
is a little security guard sitting
Frank has really cool equipment.
He has the eyes, the ears,
and he's taking all these inputs
what to do with them!
What's important
or take something from somebody
is that most people misunderstand
attention is the first step.
Attention is the security fence
It's
are going to be dedicated to it.
If they're not fending to something
Even if the cameras are pointed
at me it doesn't mean you're not going
If I ask him the correct question
to him in his priorities
at the file and rewind
is an illusion that most people think
and while theory winding
at you and if they're thinking
they can't process anything else,
or watch and sometimes
they don't realize that's happened.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Away
life example of stealing?
Would you like to see that?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes!
I actually found myself checking
as he was saying that and I want
Just kidding.
APOLLO: Do you have anything
Can you stand up for me real quick
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yeah,
APOLLO: Cool.
Now, the disadvantage
on stage but if you can stand
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Greg.
APOLLO: Close your hand kinda
past me did you check
Your front pocket,
the watch is gone,
inside your front pocket?
(Laughter.) Is it still there?
Can I show you this is odd a lot
familiar to you?
Is that yours?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: No.
APOLLO: You're realizing your cell
Those are two items
is much more adversarial than you ever
of someone who doesn't know who you
So here he has seen me working
Here you go.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you
(Laughter.) (Applause.) APOLLO:
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Whoa hoo.
APOLLO: Thanks for asking
the questions are important, it's not
the questions I asked him,
by that wallet that you had
that's his security guard saying,
behind the game?
And when he switches
I removed the watch.
I've got the moves
audio) that I have light fingers I'm able
and suppress his perceptions.
So you use psychological
I have a quick question,
of being aware of these things
do you have any experience
whether or not we are, in fact, better
if you have any advice for us.
Be careful with your answer!
APOLLO: A while back I performed
of Secret Service came
of you have heard this story.
"
Wheels up" "wheels down"
and because one of the trainings
it's "keep in mind" and you have
to the task that you're doing which
to spend my attention dollars
an atrophy
they're spending the attention
In their case they would square
and wouldn't let me get close,
to pretend that I wasn't interested
and now this person just let me
because I'm doing it
the game to be about him
inside their space to steal their things.
If you can understand
(Laughter.) It was a treasure chest.
He didn't steal your APOLLO: As
respond to the question, could
in the air?
This is a perception test,
I'm going to show you two photos.
There is going to be a change,
the change put your right hand
will know how fast it takes affect,
of security professionals here
the realtime results of this.
This image is going to toggle back
to your neighbor but when you see
That's kind of an answer
I'm scared now!
APOLLO: Now I start giving you
a tendency to get tunnel vision,
start counting shoes and then it gives
or more obvious, in any case
without this and once you see it you
For the rest of you look
will see that the engine
Now put your right hand
APOLLO: You shouldn't feel stupid
because I myself am susceptible
but the difference
When you know something that's when
When you know your protocol
scared because you have no room
is what makes us secure.
There is another example
This is how I think about deception.
let me grab this here, it would be easier.
If you think
now this is a micro, me
with you guys and it's how you perceive
Tennessee Williams,
write's create a play they forget
because when the audience views
the audience is the detective,
or comedy they're trying
day, hooking for patterns, what's
what's happening right now,
all of that's being processed just
in front of you.
Right now this is a good example
in a real sense is controlling most
So the dimmer areas you wouldn't know
on you right now stealing
up things I might do later.
In the same way you have
to spend your attention
When it comes to deception there
of happening simultaneously that's
in this sense it's "back stage" kind
the spoon bending and you realized it's
a peek behind the curtain.
When you get a peek
and you have suspicion it doesn't make
When that moment happens you start
If I'm on the other side and I'm
I would teach you to do
is a director so obviously
is a deception you know somebody
a big thing, to identify
This is what I would teach
so if you see behind the curtain it's
plausible reason why that happened
anybody know who that is?
He stole the Eiffel Tower?
Twice!
He stole the Brooklyn Bridge.
He was arrogant when
to prison
they said, how are you going
in San Francisco, and I said,
to see it," and they said,
"I'm not going to be here tomorrow."
He picked
suspicious about, and he made
climbed out of the window,
to be cleaning windows so when
they thought it was
He was a master of human nature.
He understood how
When our mind sees things in reality,
if it is, I'll encode it, if it's not,
about it.
If you can decipher what makes things
to the person you can make things
You can make them not perceive them.
Great example
he was selling the Effel Tower,
of junk metal.
How are we doing on time?
Finish the story.
APOLLO: I'll wrap it up.
All right.
When he was selling the Tower,
that Victor might not be who he said
He had a variety
on the job but this wife smelled the rat,
behind the curtain.
The way he dealt with that was
he had dinner with them he said
to happen you're going to need
she thinks that's the rat she smells,
They hate him but they say all right
they go to buy the contract and
to keep
than he planned
to identify what she needed.
That's an example
Any questions?
Guys, we want to thank Apollo
APOLLO: Thank you, guys.
(Applause.) Thank you.
We're going to try to get Apollo
on his schedule, not today, to more
if you have questions that you want
to us and when we get Apollo on we
and get them answered.
You guys have been great this year
for making this happen.
Thanks very much, DEF CON!